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    • #3530
      tbeltrans
      Participant

      This thread can be considered as breaking off from the thread about the goal of the Sudnow method. Here, we can discuss our respective approaches to working with the method. The following is my own approach and interpretation of the Sudnow method, and in no way is intended to dictate anybody else’s approach and interpretation. We each must find our own way. When it really comes down to it, this learning process is really something we each do alone, though we can collectively share our experiences.

      My current approach to working with the method is harking back to my first with it, when I was working alone. I made good progress because I listened to the tapes every day going to and from work, and then followed Sudnow’s instructions pretty much to the letter – learn Misty and As Time Goes By, then start voicing your own tunes, one tune at a time, using the voicing rules, working from a fakebook. The version of the course I had then had 5 or 6 tapes and was only a recording of the seminar, and a three-ring binder with whatever handouts Sudnow had for that seminar plus the illustrations he had drawn on the white board. It was much later that Sudnow came to town to do a seminar. I did not attend the seminar, but showed at the end of it and purchased the 12 tape course. That seminar was held at a piano store not far from Rosedale in Roseville. I played Misty and As Time Goes By for Sudnow and the folks attending the seminar.

      So now, I firmly have both Misty and As Time Goes By firmly in hand, and most of Danny Boy. Danny Boy I downloaded from this site as a PDF and printed it out. It is an excellent review of the voicing rules, along with some new territory involving playing clusters under the melody when the chord doesn’t change, so as to provide harmonic movement. The cluster consist of typical voicing choices that become available as the melody changes and the chord remains the same. It is an easy concept that sounds really good.

      One thing I am being very careful of is NOT rushing to get to the next tune. As when learning anything of real substance, if we short-change ourselves early on, we pay a high price later on. My focus is on getting my hands to move from chord to chord fluently, and really memorize these tunes. Other non-classical piano courses, such as Duane Shinn, really emphasize having a ready repertoire so that when somebody finds out you play piano, you really can play something. I am going for that 15 or 20 tunes well in hand and ready to play, that Sudnow talked about early on.

      We all seem to learn somewhat differently. Apparently, Sudnow’s approach was quite rigid early on, and he loosened up quite a bit in later years as he got feedback from students. After all, he had to balance what he believed was the “right” approach with being able to sell product. The more rigid approach is fine for those students who learn best that way, but not so fine for those who don’t. For me, it seems that, at least in the beginning stages, the more rigid approach works well. My experience with self-teaching a variety of subjects, the fewer variables there are to choose from in the beginning stages, the less chance for error and confusion. Once I know the territory well enough, I can begin to experiment. I like to know EXACTLY what I intend to accomplish for practice every day when I sit down to the piano. Sudnow’s early teaching works quite well for that. As I get comfortable with the whole thing, I can start forging my own path. I would venture to say that, by the time I have 5 or 6 of my own arrangements well in hand, I will be doing more of that and less of the rigid approach.

      I believe there really is a “right way” and a “wrong way” to approach learning to play the piano. However to me, the “right way” is whatever is consistent with your learning style such that you remain motivated and progressing. The “wrong way” is the way that makes you dread even thinking about playing the piano. Fortunately, in later years, apparently Sudnow loosened up enough for people to find their own way to apply his basic philosophy.

      For me, once I finish Danny Boy, I will dive into voicing my own choice of tune. On completing that, I will do another, and another, and another, etc. I will know when I have learned what I need to know from doing that by the fact that I am voicing “on the fly” and no longer need to write down fractions or memorize tunes because I am just doing them as I feel at the moment.

      In the past, when working with the Sudnow method, I had voiced several tunes, so that aspect is not new to me. However, I felt that it would be a good idea to review and wade in carefully again this time around. I have learned a fair amount on the piano from exploring other methods, and will bring all that to bear at some point as I get really comfortable with voicing on the fly.

      Tony

    • #3531
      tbeltrans
      Participant

      One more thing I should add to this discussion regarding motivation…

      Every day we each make a decision as to whether to practice or not that day. When we miss a day, it becomes easier to miss the next day and easier again the next, until we realize we are not playing or practicing at all any more. This is one HUGE problem with self-teaching that seems to be less of a problem when we have to answer to a real live teacher and there is money on the table. When self-teaching, we have nobody to answer to except ourselves.

      For me, as long as I remain aware that this is a decision I have to make every day, and a commitment that I have to renew every day, I seem to do better than I might otherwise.

      Sudnow suggested having a group locally of students and that we play for each other. That provides motivation because we would not want to show up at the next meeting and have nothing to show for the time we were supposed to have spent practicing since the last meeting. We could do that here if a group of us were to agree to post at regular intervals, recordings of ourselves playing. It doesn’t have to be a complete polished performance, but only what we have accomplished since the last recording, even if only a few chords.

      Tony

    • #3532
      David Haynes
      Keymaster

      Good post. I’ll have some thoughts later.

      I’m thinking we should break the ‘motivation’ topic off onto its own thread too. ?

      Seems, as Tony says, that’s a big issue that is really the execution part of ones approach.

    • #3534
      tbeltrans
      Participant

      David,

      That is fine with me. I will cut and paste my extra little post on motivation into another thread called “Motivation”.

      Really, I think motivation is the biggest thing. It is said that, when a person gets sober, not drinking is no longer the problem – living is. The same can be said for the Sudnow method. Once a person understands what s/he is to do, motivation then becomes the problem.

      Tony

    • #3538
      David Haynes
      Keymaster

      I think many new students underestimate the amount of time this effort takes. Tony has mentioned many times about the value of going back to Sudnow’s seminar and listening to what he says more carefully. The tasks required of you aren’t difficult but to sustain the effort over a long period of time without getting distracted is more difficult.

      Because I had to repeatedly listen to all of David’s recordings during the creation of the new seminar, I came to realize two things: first, it’s quite motivating just to listen to Suds and second, after all these years I still am reminded of something I’d forgotten every time I listen to David. And I’ve listened to him a lot.

      Sometimes the simplicity of the Method deceives people. Playing the piano, even in this relatively narrow subset, is still a very big skill.

      I also agree that ‘motivation’ is the key. Providing you’re staying focused on the tasks at hand.

      I’ll have more to say about motivation on that thread.

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