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Thanks David! I was just last night suggesting a friend check out the site and Suds’ materials. They were huge for me, opening up my eyes to something I’d never dreamed I could do. You are doing an awesome job keeping things going here.
I did not know that backstory, thank you for sharing. A couple things about September Song. It’s obviously most closely associated with Jimmy Durante, but Sinatra did a great duet version of it together with John Denver on the 1977 TV special Sinatra and Friends. By that time, Frank’s voice was not as versatile as it had been (although I am a huge Sinatra fan, and still believe his 1982 Concert for the Americas is one of the greatest live performances of all time). But this song really highlights John Denver’s amazingly pure voice. I had long dismissed John Denver, but I may have to go back and listen to him again.
Also, it seems like a lot of people think of September Song as a sad tune. But I disagree. When done with feeling – as with so many songs Sinatra sang – the final A part (“these golden days… I’ll spend them with you”) is a beautifully touching song of lifelong love. Sinatra has really been my mentor in singing. I love the way he does the final A part of songs like You Make Me Feel So Young, My Funny Valentine, and maybe most remarkable of all Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered. Just listen to this:
Thanks for all you do.
Hi Angelo, in addition to agreeing with David’s comment, I would make one observation. Suds talked about getting the chord shapes into your hands. That didn’t make a lot of sense to me at first, but do it awhile and it will make a lot more sense. What I mean is that your hands get used to automatically playing certain shapes when you see a chord. And by see, I mean either on paper, or just in your mind.
So if you see/think a D7, your right hand is so used to playing that C-Eb-F#-G# shape as inner voices, you put your hand to keyboard and it just comes out. The only way it becomes automatic is to use it a lot.
Here’s an example of one of my songs, which I arranged myself, where basically I am just playing these shapes. Plus a little stride bass from playing Joplin.
So, personally I have never had a “practice” time per se. It’s just – sitting down and playing songs. I believe Suds would have agreed with that philosophy. I think he also talked about learning scales. I know scales pretty well from playing over the years. But if not for you, I can see your “practice” time being playing scales and the rest of your time “playing great songs” (I believe that’s a Suds quote, it’s been awhile).
Remember also, you don’t have to play them exactly the same every time, or even get all the color tones in. Nobody will know or care. Suds said you “must” have all those color tones, but then he followed it up by saying that’s the goal, to hand your hand fall to them naturally. Even some of the dot songs don’t have them all.
Best wishes with it!
Thanks David! My Satin Doll story is that back in 2000, I had just gotten a bit of money so I decided to buy an upright bass. I’d played bass guitar for a few years, but never the doghouse. I had no idea how to play the thing! But I wanted to start playing bluegrass, so an upright it was. I was told a coworker played the upright bass, so I asked him to give me some pointers, and he invited me over to his house. Turns out he’s a jazz bassist and he got me started with the basics. Came time to find a song to learn and he said “how about Satin Doll?” I’d long liked jazz, but didn’t know much about it, and actually had never heard of the tune at that point. So I learned the tune and learned to play the bass at the same time from a Jamey Aebersold book at his house with him playing the piano. It was a baptism by fire, but it was fun!
The question of songwriters getting royalties is actually an interesting one to me. I’m a software developer by trade, and I don’t get royalties for the programs I write. It’s arguable that programming is as creative a venture as songwriting. So the fact that songwriters often didn’t get royalties is not that hard to imagine after all!
Great! I also agree with David H here. I would never discourage taking lessons, but there’s something to be said for experiencing the school of hard knocks first, (I’ve considered taking some piano lessons and I probably will eventually.) Just hunk about how you learn, and try some things first.
If you want to, check out my YouTube channel where I play a bunch of songs I arranged myself using basic chord progression knowledge plus David S’s techniques:
Best wishes,
GaryHi Yvonne, you definitely will, if you stick with it. I totally agree with what David says about getting chords into your hands. Believe it or not, your hands will start to automatically move into the right shapes at the right times. Whether you’ll “need” a teacher depends on what you want to do. If you just want to play on your own, including arranging songs on your own, you almost almost definitely will not need a teacher.
If you want to do your own arranging, you will likely need a better understanding of harmony and song structure than the course provides – that’s not really David’s purpose – but you will pick that up some also. (If we really took advantage of all of the resources that David Haynes has provided us on the site, we’d have enough learning material for years of study!) Another good free resource is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_progression – chord progressions, especially the ii7-V7-I (aka 2-5-1) are super important, and Sudnow’s voicings work with such progressions really well.
Once you really start to “get it”, you may want to consider a teacher. In my opinion – and I’m not a teacher – we as adult learners do better starting on our own. It is my view that if you don’t have the wherewithal to learn a good deal on your own, you won’t do it with a teacher, either. The time to bring in a teacher is after you’ve learned a good bit and struggled with it on your own. I’ve recently started singing lessons after years of performing music in public. I go into lessons having practiced and having thought about my shortcomings; she tells me how to solve them. When she tells me to do something with my mouth, it’s like a revelation, the solution to a problem I’ve struggled with and puzzled over for years. When I sing the way she tells me to, and suddenly I can almost effortlessly add another whole step or two to each end of my range, it’s like a God-given gift. Maybe I should have started earlier, but I do think I did right by trying it and having some successes and some failures first. Maybe that’s just me, though.
Best of luck and keep at it! David’s method works!
David and Tony, thank you for explaining. There are definitely some aspects of the 12-tape course I’d be interested in (e.g. stride and more information on voicing), but it looks like David has made most of that type material available elsewhere on the site in the form of chats, song-of-the-month, etc. To be honest, I don’t really enjoy the bits about the political and economic aspects of piano teaching that much, but I guess that was all part of the man Sudnow. I wish I’d have been able to meet him!
David, you have done an amazing job with this site. Surely your work has completed Suds’ desire to give people the tools to get piano into their lives themselves. I always recommend it to anybody who indicates an interest in learning to play this style of piano. There’s definitely enough material on the site to keep me busy for years to come!
Wow, the song of the month – I had not seen that before. That looks like it would be really helpful. I see that I am going to have to really start exploring this site!
David, I was just recently going thru the weekend seminar again, and I really like how you’ve done the animations. I remember listening to the seminar repeatedly in the car, always having to try and picture what’s going on. The animations make things a lot clearer.
One question: you mention the “12 tape course.” I’ve gone through the weekend seminar, several times but not lately so it’s due for a re-listen. What is the “12 tape course” and is it on the site?
Ah, I see, David. Thanks! I was looking everywhere except the seminar. I think I’ll have to listen to that through again – it’s been a few years now.
So I’m getting back into the course. I’ve played a lot of songs using Suds voicings (you can hear some of them here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1RgxG2Y6Hs&list=PLfv62VT5n65tbsxCDyazC1ePXF7GebFST) but I never did scales like he apparently recommended. This talk about scales has made me want to go and practice scales his way. My question: I don’t see anything here on the site that describes how they should be practiced. Is it just as simple as “play all the major scales up and down for a few octaves”? What about minor (and what kind of minor, melodic/harmonic)? Modal (Dorian is one of my favorites, and certainly gets used a lot in jazz)?
Thanks for considering my dumb question. 🙂
There might be a difference here between senior centers and retirement homes that I didn’t discern at first. The latter are where I do all my volunteering, and most of the folks there have various stages of dementia. There’s also a senior center in town, where “senior” just means anybody over 55 (which includes me!).
Since it seems like learning to play would be good for their mental health, I would love to extend my volunteering at the retirement home… just not sure how successful it would be. It might be more frustrating for all involved. I also don’t know whether they’d be interested. I suppose I should talk to the managers there.
Just to put my voice out there – I am the same. I have been away from the piano for awhile due to work and Toastmasters, and my musical outlet has been Irish traditional on the tin whistle and flute. Just getting back into the method again. I think that’s one genius thing about it – you can spend some time away from it, and get back into it relatively easily. I’m still working on the songs I knew before, but they come back relatively easily because the changes are in my hands (as David might have said).
Judith, I love how you’re teaching at the senior center! I do a lot of volunteering at senior centers as well. That would be great, to teach them to play. It is a plus that Sudnow’s method fits the kind of music they really like. I play a lot of these kinds of songs for them on guitar and ukulele. What is your experience with it? I would think they’d have a hard time learning, since many of them are on a downhill slope, mentally and physically. On the other hand, maybe learning something new like this would help them prolong quality of life longer. I’d love to hear what you’re found. BTW I am right down the road from you in Leesburg.
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